Which political ideology do you most identify with?
Nice language, nice arguments, very eloquent and incisive. Yes, I do think unions were the problem.…
I have a hard time not being emotional when the fall of those unions in the beginning would’ve meant the displacing of all workers rights we’ve gained since then. Henry Frick was a traitor, going against Carnegie’s own wishes and attempted to cut their wages by over 1/5th, including increasing working hours to 12, after the wage decreases 3 years prior, equating to roughly half of what they had when unions gained what they wished at the Homestead. Frick, and many other businessman had a LONG history of using the Pinkertons to either infiltrate, attack, or destroy unions as a whole in the workforce, leading to multiple encounters with tens of deaths on the workers sides. The Pinkertons had an army larger than that of the entire US military at the time, and later, their pay got far worse over the early 1900s. The lead up was due a mix of cutting wages, longer work hours, and an extremely concerning clause in their contracts that would’ve required that all new members be non-union workers. Frick was the threat, he caused the unrest and refused to leave behind.
@Patriot-#1776Constitution4mos4MO
Did I say I admired Henry Frick? Is this another STRAW MAN FALLACY? I think it is. All I was doing was providing some historical context for you, a look at the other side, a counterpoint to the establishment narrative, and you started screaming and cursing at me. Do you think that's logical? Am I not allowed to provide context where context is needed?
@9CJ6CB64mos4MO
No, but the goals align, and if those unions never pushed back against corporations in the slightest, you’d be working 12 hour shifts and over 60 hours a week, with likely no pay that would supplement your cost of living. Overall, the unions did much more good than harm, and if you take the stance of “they were the problem”, then it’s not unreasonable to assume that you were against what they did, including the ways they helped, which made a much stronger and long lasting impact on the workers and the future at large. I’m not unaware of the bad things some unions… Read more
@Patriot-#1776Constitution4mos4MO
12 hour shifts is not that bad, we're spoiled in America today. The unions were, from the start, infiltrated by socialist ideologies and some anarchists even, and were notoriously riotous and bloody when they didn't get what they wanted. And, also, you've STILL never addressed the fact that a considerable number of Carnegie's workforce WANTED to keep working and WANTED to not join the union, but the unionists responded by burning their houses to the ground. What about those poor workers, who, out of principle, refused to join the union? Did you know Carnegie gave them raises?
@9CJ6CB64mos4MO
And there were plenty of loyalists to Britain, the revolution itself was a minority group, and socialism was created in the wake OF the Industrial Revolution as a response to the inhumane conditions and treatment of the workers as a whole. The unions sometimes betrayed the interests of the workers, and in many cases, yes, they got bloody, so did we during the revolution. The union workers viewed non-union workers as traitors to their dreams of gaining better wages and conditions because, before that time, Frick lived to use non-union workers to inflict his wrath on them. I will never say that… Read more
@Patriot-#1776Constitution4mos4MO
And there were plenty of loyalists to Britain, the revolution itself was a minority group...
Hold up, I thought we were talking about labor unions and free markets and monopolies, not the history of the birth of this great Confederation. This word salad sure has the most random things in it...
The unions sometimes betrayed the interests of the workers, and in many cases, yes, they got bloody, so did we during the revolution.
That's an Appeal to Hypocrisy Fallacy – you're saying that violence and bloodshed on the part of the unions I cannot claim is wrong when I would have support… Read more
